Chapter 10: Evangelical Feminist Claims from Theology and from Ideas of Fairness and Justice
Wayne Grudem
Answer 10.1a: There is a difference between priesthood and the office of pastor or elder. Even though all believers are priests in the sense that we can draw near to God in prayer and worship without an earthly temple or a human priest, not every believer is qualified to be an elder or pastor or teacher in the church. (404)Egalitarian claim 10.2: No Eternal Submission of the Son: Complementarians mistakenly appeal to the Son being subject to the Father within the Trinity. First, this subjection existed only during Jesus' life on earth. Second, if the Son was eternally subject to the Father, then he could not be fully God. Third, scholars differ on this aspect of Trinitarian doctrine, so it is not certain anyway. (405)
Answer 10.1b: The New Testament authors do not appeal to the priesthood of all believers when they discuss who is qualified to be a pastor or elder. They list several other qualifications, including maleness. (405)
Answer 10.1c: We should never use one part of Scripture to draw conclusions that deny or contradict other parts of Scripture, but that is what this Egalitarian claim does. (405)
Answer 10.2a: There is substantial testimony in Scripture that the Son was subject to the Father before he came to live on earth. (406)
Answer 10.2b: Christ was also subject to the authority of the Father while he was on earth as a man. (408)
Answer 10.2c: What Christ gave up in coming to earth was glory and honor, not equal authority with the Father. (408)
Answer 10.2d: After Christ returned to heaven, he was still subject to the authority of the Father, and will be so forever. (409)
Answer 10.2e: The Son will forever be subject to the authority of the Father. (414)
Answer 10.2f: The Christian church throughout history has affirmed both the subordination of the Son to the Father with respect to their roles, and the equality of the Son with the Father with respect to their being. (415)
Answer 10.2g: But the Son was also fully God. Therefore the very nature of the Trinitarian God shows that equality in personhood and value and abilities can exist along with being subject to the authority of another. (423)
Answer 10.2h: Egalitarians who claim that Christ's subordination to the Father was only for his time on earth still must agree that Christ's full deity existed along with subordination to the authority of the Father. (425)
Answer 10.2i: Scholars who deny that the Son is eternally submissive to the Father do not prove their position from Scripture. (425)
Answer 10.2j: The idea of authority and submission never began; it existed forever in the very being of God. (429)
Egalitarian claim 10.3: Mutual Submission in the Trinity: Within the
Trinity, the Father also submits to the Son, so there
is no unique authority for the Father in relation to the
Son. (429)
Answer 10.3a: Grenz has confused the categories under discussion. (430)
Answer 10.3b: No passage of Scripture and no recognized writer throughout the history of the church supports the idea of "mutual submission" in the Trinity. It is an egalitarian invention created to justify the egalitarian idea of mutual submission in marriage. (431)
Answer 10.3c: If the Father also submitted to the authority of the Son, it would destroy the Trinity, because there would be no Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but only Person A, Person A, and Person A. (433)
Egalitarian claim 10.4: No Parallel With Trinity: The comparison with
the Trinity is invalid because Jesus' submission
to the Father was voluntary and because there was never
any disagreement among members of the Trinity. (433)
Answers 10.4a: The comparison with the Trinity is valid because the Bible appeals to women to decide to be subject to their husbands, and thus they, like Christ, should exercise a voluntary submission. (434)
Answer 10.4b: But the comparison with the Trinity does not give justification for a wife to choose not to submit to her husband. (435)
Answer 10.4c: The appeal to the Trinity is valid because Christ's submission was grounded in his existence as Son for all eternity. (435)
Answer 10.4d: The appeal to the Trinity is valid because it shows that there is authority and submission even among sinless persons. (436)
Egalitarian claim 10.5: Different Subordination: Analogies with other
kinds of human subordination are not valid, because those
are limited in function and duration and are based on
human abilities or choices. But the subordination of women
to men taught by complementarians is unlimited in function
and duration, and is based on a woman's very being.
(437)
Answer 10.5a: All analogies are imperfect, but they can still illustrate some truth. The truth that other examples of human subordination teach is that equality in being can exist along with difference in roles. (438)
Answer 10.5b: The Bible sometimes bases roles on a person's "being" alone, not on ability or human choice. This contradicts the heart of the egalitarian position, which is that only ability or choice should determine roles in marriage and the church. (438)
Egalitarian claim 10.6: Subordination In Essence: If female subordination
is based on who a woman is (as female) rather than her
ability or choice, then it is a subordination in essence.
Therefore the complementarian position leads to the conclusion
that women are lesser beings. (441)
Answer 10.6a: No, it is a subordination in function. (441)
Answer 10.6b: Women's submission to male headship is based on their having a different being, not an inferior being. (442)
Egalitarian claim 10.7: Not a Caste System: We live in a free society
where access to high status positions is based on ability
and voluntary choice, not a caste society where some people
are excluded by birth (as they are in a complementarian
view). (443)
Answer 10.7a: To frame the issue in terms of "higher status" and "lower status" skews the discussion and clouds the true issue. (443)
Answer 10.7b: The real issue is authority and submission, which may or may not coincide with honor and respect, depending on the situation. (444)
Answer 10.7c: The caste system is an evil, dehumanizing system not commanded by God, but marriage and the church are good institutions created by God and regulated by his wise commands. (444)
Answer 10.7d: To say that both complementarianism and the caste system determine roles "by birth" misstates and clouds the true issue. (444)
Answer 10.7e: It is wrong to say that we should determine roles for men and women in marriage and the church according to the political theories of a "free society" rather than according to the Bible. (445)
Egalitarian claim 10.8: Society Today Rejects Gender Restrictions:
In a society where women can attain any other position
open to men, it is not fair to keep them from pastoral
ministry. (445)
Answer 10.8a: The Bible does not object to women in positions of leadership in other parts of society such as business, education, and government, but only restricts certain kinds of leadership to men in marriage and in the church. (446)
Answer 10.8b: Our ideas of "fairness" must be determined by what the Bible teaches, not by what society might say about leadership roles in the church or in other areas of life. (447)
Answer 10.8c: Many kinds of full-time ministry are available to women as well as men, and we should encourage women in these ministries. (448)
Egalitarian claim 10.9: Necessary For True Equality: Women can never
be considered truly equal to men unless they can also
be pastors. (449)
Answer 10.9a: It all depends on what is meant by "equal." This claim makes the mistake of thinking that "equality" has to mean "sameness" in every role. But we can be equal in many ways without being the same in every role. (449)
Answer 10.9b: The Bible emphasizes that the body of Christ has many members, and all have equal value before God, but they have many different gifts and functions. (450)
Egalitarian claim 10.10: Qualifications: Why should a woman who is
better qualified to be a pastor be ruled out simply because
she is a woman? (450)
Answer 10.10a: It is true that many women are gifted in teaching God's Word and have gifts of wisdom and maturity of judgment as well. (451)
Answer 10.10b: But God in his wisdom has said that one of the qualifications for teaching and governing over a church is to be a man. (451)
Answer 10.10c: Therefore, on the basis of the teaching of the whole Bible, we can say that no woman is "better qualified" to be a pastor or elder, since one of the qualifications is to be a man. (452)
Answer 10.10d: Women who have teaching gifts should be encouraged to use these in many other ways that are approved by Scripture. (452)
Egalitarian claim 10.11: Image of God: Both women and men leaders
are needed to fully reflect the image of God. (452)
Answer 10.11a: This claim would lead us to deny that Jesus could fully reflect the image of God. (453)
Answer 10.11b: One aspect of reflecting God's image is to reflect differences in authority in human relationships. (453)
Answer 10:11c: The need to hear a woman's perspective on issues facing the church does not require that a church have women elders (454)
Egalitarian claim 10.12: Mission Field: It is inconsistent to restrict
women from church leadership positions in the western
world and at the same time approve of women having such
positions on the mission field. (454)
Answer 10.12a: It is not right to say that the Bible is authoritative in one country and not in another. (455)
Answer 10.12b: Many kinds of women's ministries are approved by Scripture because they do not include teaching or governing over an assembled church or some equivalent activity. (455)
